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TOPIC: Cardiovascular ISS

Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 07:42 #811

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Sometimes the "ways" and "thought processes" at Cytori HQ are beyond comprehension. The image that still proudly welcomes visitors to this site on the front page and shows the geographical spread and types of IIS (Investigator Initiated Studies) shows 8 studies ongoing on "solid organs", which obviously makes an investor think about all the organs present in the human body and makes him guess at which organ regeneration studies are likely "worked on"-

The new slide from the ASM clearly indicates this to be a "devious hidden ball trick" in baseball terms- its just cardiovascular after all- but why not say that in the first place and not beat around the bush???? Incredible really. :bash:




Still - the new "corrected" information is valuable. IntraVase approval in the EU was announced on February 25 2013. That simply means before that date no IIS in cardiovascular WERE POSSIBLE in the EU since doctors and clinics were not allowed to insert cells into a patient by intravascular or intravenous means.

That means one has to look at emerging nations, Australia and of course Japan as the countries where these LATE STAGE studies are taking place.


I find this in interesting development and puts my focus back to places like India, South Africa, Australia etc next to Japan. Anyway- the secrecy around this all is extremely annoying and not comprehensible period. :evil:

But anybody can do their own guessing. :yawn:
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Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:

Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 09:09 #813

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Fas, how many of those studies have you found info online?

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Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 09:29 #814

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Fas - There appears to be a concerted effort to reverse the policy of the past where they promised too much and never delivered, even though they did the work. They have been frustrated and have decided to provide the minimum of information least they be asked questions that they are not in a position to answer.

They are treating us like mushrooms - keeping us in the dark and feeding us shit. I don't believe that this is a scam but rather a poorly thought out defensive strategy to avoid the embarassment of the past.

They have a platform technology that will one day be bypassed by something better. The fact that it can be huge is not a given. They need capital and must give up a percentage of some indications if they are to succeed. Dilution is bad but so is the huge waste of time. :bash:

I believe that the involvement of a number of governments in financing IIS trials is huge. CYTX had better find a way to monetize this interest quickly or they will be burried by better funded BP which will find a way to bypass the patents.

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Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 11:06 #815

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Joncon-

There is very little that one can find online in the databases of clinical trials on this globe. The Basel Osteoporosis clinic was one of the few (see my article in applications)- thereto I know a clinic in Amsterdam on periodontal- (jaw bone for implants).

The rest what is known basically Cytori announced themselves in "small print" of the CCs- SUI pilot and pivotal, liver, breast reconstruction and scleroderma.

To me the 8 studies across the globe confirms the acceptance by third parties of the application and surely will result in a partnership. I know I have been changing my mind a lot of times whether the app should be partnered. I will stay put now- and say YES- Cytori themselves are INCAPABLE to move this forward apparently.
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Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 11:06 #816

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Fas...given what we know on the sales front it would appear these trials have been very small to start...basically proof of concept type...the interest comes in the follow-up...such as expansion in scleraderma and perhaps that is where Cytori is basing their forcast but geez we are then talking a long road to the holy grail of reimbursement. Also given this activity...does this mean that a real BP partnership is further off than we think ? Are we looking at holding the line with dilution and IIS sales until next stage BARDA kicks in ??? This would seem to go against what you dug up on Astellas and direct cell therapy but we dont know for sure what, with whom and on what time line they were talking.
With what we have learned in the last month or so I am beginning to think that 2013 may not be our year for the BP partnership we have all dreamed about that finally puts the balance sheet issue to bed. I also still believe the Japanese vote in late Sept must happen first with a positive result before any such deal is signed.
Failure in UK breast reimbursement started the clock over again imho...square one. Clyde Shores focused the company correctly on purely medical disease. Never was a fan of the cosmetic self pay pathway even though some results we saw were impressive and the breast data via survey was wishy washy. We are focused correctly but the same problems of time and money remain...for now. Maybe you may come around to my think that more money that many think from various sources will be needed until Cytori finally reaches critical mass...then again, maybe not...LOL

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Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 11:42 #817

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They have a platform technology that will one day be bypassed by something better. The fact that it can be huge is not a given. They need capital and must give up a percentage of some indications if they are to succeed. Dilution is bad but so is the huge waste of time


John- I have to beg to disagree there. The cost of cell therapies which are engineered or highly cultured simply is too expensive for this world and its health care systems. Celution and next generations are to me "the egg of Columbus" and will not be surpassed in 30-40 years to come simply because its simplicity and effectiveness. Mind you I include "next generation"- i.e. "conditioning with growth factors before input to a patient. Example- CC told me some conditioning improved blood flow with 400% in a pre-clinical model- that on top of the fresh result will not be surpassed by anything I think.

Hedge- I am still a believer for 2013. The one that got away in December 2012 would have blown your mind- I think in 2013 we will see decent appreciation still. We will know soon. :yep:
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Cardiovascular ISS 31 Aug 2013 12:44 #818

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I have to admit the miss in the December/2012 deal was a shock to me. :cry:

If I knew all the details... maybe it would even make me sick :puke:

I agree with what you are saying to rongside...that cost is a HUGE plus for Cytori.

If we do get a do finally get a deal and PPS appreciation this year all the better as I still own all my shares despite my immense frustration. :bash:

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Cardiovascular ISS 01 Sep 2013 10:37 #819

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Fas - I agree with you that the cost benefit of ADRC knock the socks off cultured cell treatments. We (I) assume that it is a given that CYTX will prevail, and this is probably the case. My negative sentiment was based more on the performance of the company as an investment rather than an as indictment of the Celution science.

However, it is evident that for a variety of reasons not all of which are management's fault we have seen considerable dilution. The delay in rolling out successful reimbursed treatments also impacts on the value of the technology in terms of patent longevity. We already have CE approval and are selling the product so the clock is ticking. Also never underestimate the power of someone working out of sight and outside the box ........ you never know. :really:

Management does not have the requisite funds, mass or skill set to realise the full potential of this paradigm shifting platform technology. They have to give up some of pie. Its a big pie. My gripe is that they have not projected the potential to the market. I cannot believe that the funds are there for Mesoblast and not for us. Just saying.

I truly hope that you are right with regard to a deal bing done in 2013. :vegas: As for the one that got away .............. I'll believe it when I see it.

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Cardiovascular ISS 02 Sep 2013 06:48 #820

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Management does not have the requisite funds, mass or skill set to realise the full potential of this paradigm shifting platform technology. They have to give up some of pie. Its a big pie. My gripe is that they have not projected the potential to the market. I cannot believe that the funds are there for Mesoblast and not for us. Just saying.


I certainly agree that they have not fulfilled the expectations of the visionaries- like ourselves- that see the value of the platform technology and obviously CC & CO had to play the role of missionaries explaining that value to BP including the difference to the "regular" way of doing business with pills the BP way. That started already in 2007 when the first promised deal was not delivered due to the tech being "disruptive" so to speak. They have failed miserably so far- but I still believe when one bites (a BP), all the other ones will follow suit, just to protect themselves.

That the past was difficult is no issue with me - but if you manage to convince a dozen governments- one should also be able to do that with BP and hook them up- IMHO. :yawn:

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Board moderator and Site-owner. I still regret the day I started analysing the prospects of MacroPore (now Cytori) back in 2004- a left-over from the tech-bubble at that time from the century change in my portfolio- and became addicted to Cytori´s fat cell technology. :cry:
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